Bearcats Mean Business podcast

Grant Freking: (00:00) 

What does real world success in business actually look like? Welcome to Bearcats Mean Business, the official podcast of the University of Cincinnati's Carl H. Lindner College of Business, where inspiring career stories, honest lessons, and fresh business perspectives from the people building impact in the real world come together. Tune in for inspiration, practical business insights, and forward-looking though leadership on how ambition turns into action. And now, for today's episode. 

Grant Freking: (00:30) 

Well, it's my pleasure today to welcome artist, author, corporate leader, community advocate, so many other nouns and adjectives I can't think of right now to describe her. Padma Chebrolu, thank you for being here on Bearcats Mean Business. 

Padma Chebrolu: (00:46) 

Uh, thank you, Grant, for inviting me. It's a pleasure. It's an honor. I'm really humbled, uh, to come to, um, your podcast and thank you for inviting me. 

Grant Freking: (00:55) 

Yeah, first time and then, uh, still new in my book, still new, Lindner Hall too. So excited to have you walk through the building, uh, on our way up to the studio here. But let's start at the beginning for you. You moved from a small town in India to the United States to pursue graduate studies here at UC. Um, what gave you the confidence to make that leap? And what did it teach you about navigating uncertainty for like the rest of your life? 

Padma Chebrolu: (01:19) 

 Oh, great question. Um, yes, I was born in a small town called Guntur and my dad used to work for Indian IRS and we used to move every two, three years transfers-wise. So every town I went to, I need to adopt immediately to the school, to the teachers, uh, to the neighborhood, to make friends. So I've been very, very adaptable all my life. Um, quick onboarding, you know, accelerated onboarding basically - uh-huh. Is to go through that, uh, you know, quick phase of change. And, um, we went through so many different cities and then we settled down in, uh, Hyderabad, which was the state capital at that time. And, um, I went to this, uh, fantastic, uh, top-notch, uh, uh, college called, um, Sentence College of Education. And I became a certified teacher, um, high school teacher for math, physics and chemistry. Okay. And, uh, it was a thing that, uh, you know, for students in India, the ultimate is to go to US, uh, to pursue grad studies. 

Padma Chebrolu: (02:25) 

And, um, uh, I applied and applied to mostly Midwest, uh, universities because East Coast, West Coast cost of living is very high. Um, when you are 9,000 miles away, you think it's not safe. Uh, you don't know anybody. So, uh, when I researched in those days, you know, University of Cincinnati, uh, was giving me full scholarship, uh, which was great. And also, um, I could live on, um, on campus and it was paid for. So, uh, everything came together. Uh, studies-wise, uh, you know, I went to College of Education here at that time, a master's in information, uh, uh, instructional design and technology. So, uh, it was very IT oriented, uh, plus education oriented degree program that was very, very innovative in my, uh, thinking in those days. Wow, you can bring those two together. So the program-wise, the academics-wise, it stood out. Um, and the way I felt welcomed, and, uh, when I spoke with my, um, advisors at that time before coming here, they were very welcoming, very understanding, and I knew it's a, a large international population, student population here. 

Padma Chebrolu: (03:44) 

So I felt very much at home. I felt welcomed and, um, I could pursue those studies and I could excel in what I wanted to do. 

Grant Freking: (03:54) 

Right. And then this sort of the continuation of what it's been a lifelong learning and education journey for you too, as you hold many other degrees as well. Now your career, speaking of your career, has taken you from global business to entrepreneurship. We'll talk about that in a bit, dance and filmmaking. How have you learned to embrace those different parts of yourself rather than feeling you need to be fit into one box and one identity? 

Padma Chebrolu: (04:18) 

Yeah, I've been always like this. Uh, and I knew since I was a kid that, um, I'm different. Uh, why? Because everybody did one thing. They went to the check boxes, basically. You went to school, you went to college, you got a job, you got married, you had kids, you retired and then you died. So there's no, you can't control anything, uh, you know, when you're born, when you die, but anything in between you can control and design it the way you want it to be designed. So, uh, you know, I knew I didn't fit into the, you know, box , standard box of checkbox list. Um, so, um, I was drawn to arts. I was drawn to sports quite a bit and, uh, you know, uh, studies came to me a bit easy. So, uh, when I was in school, I was very present, um, and then I didn't have to study a- as much at home. 

Padma Chebrolu: (05:10) 

Um, so I would get as much homework done, as much activities, projects done at school. So rest of the time, for example, after school, um, uh, during weekends, uh, during summer holidays or any kind of, uh, holidays, um, I'm just focusing on other things that would bring me a lot of joy. Um, that's how I grew up. Um, to me, uh, both academics and, uh, you know, arts and sports, everything came together. It's, you know, I'm like, I never saw as there different segments of, uh, things I must only pursue these two segments versus not the. I'm like, "I'm just gonna have fun. Whatever, you know, feels like interesting, I'm gonna do it." Mm. And, um, that's how I grew up. That was my mindset. I had a lot of success in everything I touched. Um, so wh- whatever I did, I put my heart into it. 

Padma Chebrolu: (06:07) 

That means I was enjoying it. Um, so people could see that and, uh, you know, that's how it came together. So after I came to US, went to grad school here, same thing, you know, um, for example, people play sports or watch sports or people go to gym to exercise or they go on a run or they go on vacations to Europe or, you know, Asia, whatever. Uh, to me, I don't have to do any of that because, um, when you do arts or, you know, performing arts, um, that itself, you don't have to go to gym. And then you don't have to go to a special social party or anything because you're with your tribe. You're hanging out with other artists or people who are similar to you. Uh, they're highly accomplished in their own way of, you know, doing things. So I, that was so much enjoyable. 

Padma Chebrolu: (07:02) 

So it was physical, it was stimulating, it was spiritual, it was, um, very satisfying and, uh, joyful experiences that I had. Um, you know, one time I was telling dad, my dad, he was like, "Okay, you gotta, you know, really pursue classical, uh, singing, you know, and improve your voice." And I still remember telling my dad that I can't sit still. In Indian classical music, when you sing it, you sit down on the floor in this, uh, yogasana, and you sing it with emotion and using your hands. I'm like, "I can't sit still." I love music. I use the music. So, um, that, that's just the way I grew up. Um, there's, uh, you know, I have like 10 tracks going on at in any given moment. Um, education and, uh, uh, employment are part of that, yes. I go to work and then rest of the time, um, I'm doing what I love to do. 

Padma Chebrolu: (08:02) 

And people think they're so different. They're not different. Um, you know, what is the product and service you're offering, right? You know, what is your skillset? So everything flows together. To me, they all are the same thing. 

Grant Freking: (08:16) 

Yeah. Let's touch on some of that employment. You spent 30 years at Procter & Gamble, ultimately leading a sector of the company's global finance and operations. What lessons, uh, from P&G from your three decades there have stayed with you or, or still maybe are relevant to you today, even as you moved on to other, to other, to other enterprises? Um, 

Padma Chebrolu: (08:34) 

A great question. So there are so many things you learned. Um, the leadership training, um, was phenomenal. Um, and also, uh, the breadth of the, um, uh, functional knowledge you can gain. Um, I never knew I could be really good at finance. I knew I was really good at IT and technology, AI, all of that. Uh, but as I started learning all of this, I'm like, "Wow. I, you know, finance come to me easily and I can be, uh, you know, helping people with the financial analysis, financial storytelling." And then the, uh, the other piece that I also realized is that, um, I can speak business language very well. Um, if you are a marketing employee, if you are HR, if you're a sales, uh, brand, you know, I can speak your language. And that way people were able to relate with me very easily. 

Padma Chebrolu: (09:37) 

Uh, so I never told myself I'm an IT coordinate functional employee, rather I knew I'm a, you know, a, a, a business, uh, leader. And also, uh, uh, my MBA is in management systems. So wherever I went, I created these systems. So, uh, that way, it's systematically operation - with o- operational excellence, things are happening with, uh, uh, fund - uh, with the profound, uh, focus on the finance. And also, uh, how to simplify people's lives and program project management, global, this sector, that sector. I have breadth of, uh, mental power. I can, uh, people, some people have a vertical in-depth knowledge. I have that, but also I can see the business as one, uh, segment of work, however big that is. So, uh, these things, some things I knew, some things I did not know. So over the course of the years, I learned a lot about myself. 

Padma Chebrolu: (10:43) 

And, um, every two, three years you are put in a new, uh, assignment. So how quickly can you onboard? How quickly can you build those relationships? How quickly you can see what others haven't seen, and even though they are in those positions for years. So, um, how do you transition people from point A to B, change management in a very smooth way, communication? So these are skills that I, uh, learned to polish and learn them to create an outcome. 

Grant Freking: (11:18) 

Right. And if you could maybe even pick just a handful of those, because you touched on a bunch of different skill sets that you acquired just by essentially cross-training over many different brands and departments at P&G. If you were to meet someone, um, who knew nothing about your career, what would you start with and say that you're really good at and, and like where do those strengths come from? And I know you sort of touched on it a little bit, but like sort of drilling it down a little 

Padma Chebrolu: (11:40) 

Bit. Yeah. I can connect dots. Okay. I never knew that is a rare, uh, brain skill. So, uh, people see, you know, for example, if they're in, uh, brand management, they can see the brand management aspects. But if I'm in brand management, I can see rest of the business, rest of the 10 functions that come together, uh, to create this brand experience, right? If you are in a marketing or sales, so you're seeing your pillar of things, but I can see how the IT systems come together. I can see how the financials flow together. I can see from, uh, discovery of some, uh, concept, uh, proof of concept to taking it to, uh, execution. So how do you bring the team together? So, um, and making sure you bring the best out of people. Mm-hmm. It's n- not always about you. Yes, you love yourself. 

Padma Chebrolu: (12:42) 

You, you want to, uh, you know, learn and improve yourself, but also you need to grow others. This is so, so important. It, you don't do it in a way you're coaching or preaching. You do it in a way that they feel like they're growing and they feel like it is them learning. It is them growing themselves. So they take a lot of pride in it and, uh, they bring their 100% to the table, right? So working with teams is extremely important and, uh, also being fair to others, uh, showing that integrity, you know, um, give the credit where it goes. Um, uh, give tons of positive feedback, tons of positive fe- feedback, plus few suggestions. Because when you work with this world-class set of people, they're incredibly talented, incredible potential. Um, so you just tweak small, small things to, you know, make them fly, basically, in their role, in their skillset. 

Padma Chebrolu: (13:50) 

And when you look back and say, "Hey, I worked with that person 10 years ago and I made these small two suggestions and look how they took off," right? It is such a satisfaction when you help others. 

Grant Freking: (14:02) 

Yeah, that was gonna be my follow-up, was like, what's the satisfaction level for you as someone who's, you know, led a lot of these different teams must be very, feel very personal and, and satisfying to you too. 

Padma Chebrolu: (14:13) 

Yeah. I, I go by something called, uh, no regret framework. Hmm. So in life or in career, I never see everything as separate compartments. I see everything as one thing, you know, one life. In one life, different things happen, you know, eight to five, something happens, five to whatever happens, something happens, but it is me doing everything. And the fundamental skill set, fundamental principles, uh, the foundational principles are exactly the same. Whatever you do, whatever product, whatever service, whatever aspect of, you know, arts versus, you know, environmentalism, it's all the same. 

Grant Freking: (14:52) 

Right. Well, speaking of all that same and translating, um, you spent decades building the Cultural Center of India, which you founded here in town, alongside your corporate career, building both at the same time. How did you balance those two worlds and what did each one teach you about the other? 

Padma Chebrolu: (15:10) 

Yeah. Um, I never, uh, it was never an intention of building this, I'm building that. So I go into every day, uh, you know, I'm putting my best foot forward. I'm giving my maximum, uh, to that day. And when you go to sleep, did I do my best? Uh, did I use every single minute of the day in a very useful, productive way? If the answer is yes, then there is no regret, right? Um, was I present 100% in what I did what I said? It, yes. So basically you, uh, you know, you go to work, you know, regular, you work 40 hours, 60 hours, 80 hours, whatever your job role is, and you put your best foot forward in that. And you really push yourself to learn and deliver better, be a better person tomorrow. And you're always competing with yourself. You're never competing with anybody else. 

Padma Chebrolu: (16:09) 

So you, you yourself is the biggest competition, right? Um, and, you know, rest of the day, you know, after work, you know, when you're with your family, both my children are artists, right? They were part of my, uh, you know, arts and, you know, dance company activities. Uh, my daughter is a neurosurgeon. My son is a very accomplished AI strategist. So for us, as a family, we took part in arts and community service and pursuing our studies, uh, with scholarships, pursuing our careers. It's all the same, uh, for us. So, uh, the, the. I, I feel like we probably use five to 10% on average of our brain power. Every one of us has so much potential. Mm. Um, so my thing is, how can I tap into more of this, more of this, more of this? How can I deliver more value to whatever I do? 

Padma Chebrolu: (17:10) 

I'm very blessed with, uh, you know, having different talents, right? Um, and, and different doors opened up for me over the course of time. So, um, you know, when I was here, you know, people came to know I'm a performing artist and I'm into heritage arts. So there's Indian Student Association here, they're fabulous, hello. Um, so they would invite me to do events and performances. They're like, "Oh, one is here." So we had to put our first. So that'd be like, you know, a special start of the event. So, um, so as people started asking me to learn, you know, music, dance, theater, all of this, we did all of those when I was a student here. And then, uh, you know, Arnold Center invited me to be an artist performing for the inauguration. So, uh, that was a big deal. I was like, "Wow, this is a big deal.

Padma Chebrolu: (18:02) 

Look at this theater. Oh my God." Um, so I, I told myself I'm not just doing one art form, I'm bringing a spectrum of art forms here. So if that is the case, basically it's an experience, it's a cultural experience. So I named it as Cultural Center of India, and so that way it's limitless. So, um, basically, you know, when I'm with my family, you know, I'm with my friends, you know, we are doing arts. It's a all volunteer organization, basically. We go in the community, we go to schools, you know, senior centers, libraries, if we are in the community, we want to bond with the community, basically. So, uh, my kids, you know, everybody goes together and all the friends are there. So, um, you know, people go, like I said, people do different things, go to the gym, go on vacation. For me, everything is same there. 

Padma Chebrolu: (18:54) 

Arts gave me all of that. Yeah. 

Grant Freking: (18:56) 

And through that, through that community building, what have you learned about the role, uh, that leaders can play in creating community specific, specifically w- with you and the center? What have you learned about that? 

Padma Chebrolu: (19:08) 

So I don't consider myself as a leader or not a leader. You know, my kids joke about joke around with me. They're like, "Mommy says nice things to people so they can do the work." So, so, uh, I explain things in a way it makes sense to people. I'm a good storyteller and I explain the why behind everything. Um, so people are like, "Oh, I get it." And they are there because they're fully willing to contribute. Um, they want to be part of it. They need a management system, as I say, um, a, a structure where they can come and contribute. So, um, we do almost like 70 different events of all kinds of art forms, you know, uh, you know, residencies, all of this. So we are touching the lives of, you know, kids with special needs, you know, seniors and, you know, uh, people with, uh, low income. 

Padma Chebrolu: (20:06) 

So, uh, the community needs this, um, service, and we are here to provide that service. We are so blessed, um, to get this education from UC, get these jobs from the local companies, and we need to, the more you receive, the more you have to give. This is a principle I follow, and that has been the way I led my life. All 

Grant Freking: (20:35) 

Right. Let's touch on some specific parts of the arts, if you don't mind. Your passion for dance, you've, you said, you've told me it began when you were just three years old. What does dance specifically, uh, tell you about discipline, creativity, maybe even leadership that you've carried into your professional life? 

Padma Chebrolu: (20:52) 

Yeah. So, um, when you start learning an art form, uh, that is physically demanding, mentally demanding. So, uh, when you learn heritage dances, classical dances of India, uh, they are cardio. Mm. You need to be a pure athletes. Even now, I can do 100 pushups in seven minutes. Um, I do yoga, I, I walk, you know, I do breathing. So people think you need food to gain strength and stamina. You can do many of these things. They all say, no, you can drink water and get stamina and strength from that also. So, um, I operate at, uh, like a, a professional athlete, uh, in the, you know, because sports are very popular in US, so that's how we look at it. Mm. So they make you ageless. So I want to perform without any pain and, uh, you know, with full strength, even at this age. 

Padma Chebrolu: (21:51) 

So I continue to perform and all weekend, uh, you know, we have dance rehearsals, dance company, you know, um, dance classes, workshops are happening. So you gotta be so alert physically and mentally. You cannot go vacation for two seconds. If, if so, the bra - the dance, you know, because it's a coordination of 20 different things minimum at any given moment, if you, if you're not aligned, if you don't have the strength, if you're not having clarity in your thinking, you won't be able to execute that, um, live or teach that in a very sharp way. So, um, all of these things are truly, truly applicable in, um, a corporate environment. For example, you gotta be alert. Uh, people see that and, uh, people, you need to connect with the audience, right? Whether it's a meeting, whether it's a performance, you have to immediately connect with the people, and you have to be able to immediately read the people. 

Padma Chebrolu: (22:55) 

What is their background, you know, what is their agenda? What should I say that would resonate with them? How do I present this? Uh, and the preparation, the preparation before the, the presence during, and the preparation after to close the, you know, whatever, in a loose end. So these kinds of life skills, um, you know, people appreciate it, whether it's in a company or outside the company, even arts organization, if you think artists, they see themselves as business professionals, right? So it's not something different, you know, uh, where you say, uh, you know, starving artists, there is a business component to it and, uh, you're offering a product or a service, basically, and you have to design it, your, uh, skillset, you have to design it in a way it's presentable. It's consumable by audience or, or consumers. 

Grant Freking: (23:53) 

Right. So many overlapping qualities. Um, I wanna touch on another aspect of, of your, um, art talents. Um, a few years ago you produced, directed, and acted in a film Passage of the River. What was that experience like, um, as someone who's never done any of those things, and what does storytelling allow you to explore and communicate that maybe business can't always do for you? 

Padma Chebrolu: (24:15) 

Yeah, yeah. Um, I remember when I was like 10 or 12 years ago, my dad took me to this, uh, a conference, uh, uh, a, a big conference. I can't remember the context of it. Uh, people were seated and, um, they were asking for, uh, you know, uh, somebody to come and speak. I didn't realize my dad nominated me ahead of a time. I didn't know this. Like, he didn't tell me because I was like, "I don't know what to say." So I was just sitting there looking at people, what's happening here? He says, "Go up and say, go up there to the microphone and say something." I'm like, "Say what?" He's like, "Just tell a story." I'm like, "Uh, what is happening?" I remember, I'm like, "Oh, okay. I gotta make my dad proud." So, uh, I just went there and s- smiled at people and I was looking at them. 

Padma Chebrolu: (25:06) 

They're like, "Who's this little kid coming in front of the microphone?" They were adjusting the microphone so I could talk. And then, uh, I started talking and I started telling them stories and, uh, everybody was smiling, nodding their heads. So, uh, it, it was really, really lovely. And I knew from day one I'm a good storyteller. Um, and people just stop and listen to me. And 30 years ago when I started, uh, working at, you know, at the company, you know, I was one of the few females basically in IT and, uh, because I'm Indian, they were next to nothing Indians at that time. So when I go into the meeting rooms, they would be like, uh, are you at the right place? Who is she? And, uh, I'm a good listener. I first, I want to read the room and I want to listen to what's happening, who's saying what, and read, uh, read their agendas, you know, what makes sense for me to say the minute I start talking, the room becomes silent. 

Padma Chebrolu: (26:05) 

Everybody off their phones and laptops, they're like looking at me like, "What is she saying now?" So, uh, I knew I had that, uh, stage presence. Um, I have the room presence. Um, so whatever I say, people are like, "What is she saying? Uh, why is she talking so different? Why is she not using IT jargon? Um, uh, you know, she's talking very simple English and it's making sense and she's pulling different pieces together, connecting the dots, you know, uh, people understand that. And I'm very much into, uh, learning, uh, the, the US history and just like I'm also very interested in Asian history, right? So as I was learning that, you know, uh, I learned about Native American culture and the struggles that they went through, and then I realized how there are so many parallels between, uh, the colonization of India and the freedom struggle by Gandhi and what Native Americans went through, uh, and the spirituality and the lifestyle and the ancient wisdom and the heritage that they have. 

Padma Chebrolu: (27:09) 

And I started studying these parallels between these two cultures. And, um, I realized Ohio, state of Ohio and Midwest has this rich Native American indigen- indigenous culture. So I wrote a story and a screenplay and, uh, I submitted that to High Arts Council and it got funded. So, uh, it was very small funding and I used my resources. I engaged local, um, volunteer actors. And I also engaged some Native Americans to come and be part of this movie, Passage of the River. The river itself is the star of the movie, and I combined my, uh, you know, Indian storytelling of Bollywood movies in generic terms we say it, and then the Hollywood movies and brought those factual information and the storylines from the ancient to the contemporary, both of them together, how do they play out? So it's a very unique story and please watch it, Passage of the River. 

Padma Chebrolu: (28:13) 

It's on YouTube for sure. It's free. It won, uh, you know, uh, International Film Festival Awards from 18 different countries. So it resonated. It's environmentalism. It's showing respect to indigenous cultures. It is, uh, showing gratitude to, uh, to what we have. 

Grant Freking: (28:32) 

Right. And I wanna wrap up, um, and I'm definitely gonna check out that movie, um, with artist, author, corporate leader, community advocate, Padma. When you look at the impact you've had, and you've still got much, much to give, I know, but what do you hope people take away from the work you've done? 

Padma Chebrolu: (28:50) 

Uh, it's just one person . Yeah. All those titles, uh, you know, could, could, could change, could continue to grow, right? Um, I want to, uh, you know, multiply my contributions. Uh, the older I get, the more experience that I have, right? Mm-hmm. The more, uh, uh, you know, people are showing appreciation or recognition. So, uh, you know, how can I do more of this? How can I scale this? Um, the impact that I have into the community. So, uh, I request everybody to do the same, whatever they can possibly, you know, whatever time they have, half hour, one hour, you know, f- first take care of yourself, you know, have that alignment, internal alignment, that life is not check boxes, life is not, uh, you know, one line, you know, pace yourself. People are living up to 100 years now. Uh, so, uh, first take care of yourself so you can take care of the community. 

Padma Chebrolu: (29:50) 

And everybody is taken care. Everybody will do just fine in their life. Pace yourself. Take one day at a time. Do the best you can every day, max effort forward. Um, so, uh, and, and be happy, you know, uh, uh, we are all very blessed already, so look at what you have already and enjoy the life you have. All 

Grant Freking: (30:13) 

Right. Padma, thank you again for being here. Very inspiring work. Um, congratulations again on your recent award with the Ohio, uh, governor. And then also I wanted to call out the UC specific award you won earlier in 2026, the Marion A. Spencer Mosaic Award, which I know a lot of people around UC were very excited about. So thank you again for being here and best of luck. 

Padma Chebrolu: (30:32) 

Thank you. 

Grant Freking: (30:33) 

Thank you for listening to this episode of Bearcats Mean Business. If today's episode sparked a new idea, challenge your thinking, or helped you see your path a little more clearly, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share the episode with someone in your network. Thanks for being part of the conversation. And remember, real world success begins here at Lindner. 

Grant Freking: (00:00)
What does real world success in business actually look like? Welcome to Bearcats Mean Business, the official podcast of the University of Cincinnati's Carl H. Lindner College of Business, where inspiring career stories, honest lessons, and fresh business perspectives from the people building impact in the real world come together. Tune in for inspiration, practical business insights, and forward looking though leadership on how ambition turns into action. And now for today's episode.

Marianne Lewis: (00:31)
Adam, thank you for being here. It, it's always a pleasure to engage and to learn from you and we appreciate your time and interest.

Adam Symson: (00:38)
Oh, it's such a privilege to be here with you. I feel like

Marianne Lewis: (00:41)
This is becoming a pattern. You and I had the opportunity to do this recently at a Fifth Third Chamber event and I, I came away very inspired and was grateful for the opportunity to expand with our students and alumni and our partners more broadly through the podcast.

Adam Symson: (00:56)
Well, it's, it's wonderful to be here in this building. Um, there's so much light and air here and, and the vibrancy and seeing all the students walk around it, um, it's, it's really

Marianne Lewis: (01:07)
Heartening to me. I'm glad you got to see that as well. There, there's a reason why it's so much fun to be at a university. It just, it makes me feel always both young and old.

Adam Symson: (01:16)
I'm, I'm, I'm ready to go back. There

Marianne Lewis: (01:18)
You go. I love

Adam Symson: (01:18)
It.

Marianne Lewis: (01:18)
For sure. Well, I mean, I think that's a nice way to kind of get us started, Adam, is, is to think a little bit from even your own perspective looking backwards. I, I often find, especially when I'm, I'm talking to students and I bring someone like yourself in who has a, a remarkable career and is sitting here as CEO and people think I could never get there, but you didn't start here. I mean, you have, everybody has this windy road that you don't expect. And I, I wonder if we could take you back a l - to your more formative years. I mean, you've worked as a producer and an editor. You were at several, um, LA area TV stations. But when you think about those formative years, are, what sticks out at you that really helped shape the way you lead today?

Adam Symson: (02:05)
Well, I'm, I'm sort of an accidental CEO. Okay. Um, because I didn't set out to do this. Uh, I really just wanted to, uh, be a journalist, um, specifically a investigative journalist. Uh, and so my life, my career has been, um, full of serendipity and a willingness, I would say, to, um, take a path even when the course down the road is not quite clear. Um, so when I think back, uh, you know, I, I, you know, I wasn't a, a business major nor was I, um, an econ major when I graduated from, from college. Uh, I really wanted to focus on, on doing journalism as a, as a trade, as a craft. Um, and, and what I recognized, um, is the curiosity necessary to be a good journalist has so much application - Mm. In the business world. Uh, especially if you're in an industry where you've got to be curious to identify, you know, that which is gonna be next or how you're going to navigate these difficult times.

Adam Symson: (03:10)
So it's, um, it, you know, my, my career has been sort of a winding, twisting road and, uh, you know, I, today I just have the privilege of being able to sort of continue to be focused on journalism and media, but to do so from sort of a scaled position. I don't get to write stories anymore. I don't get to work on investigations, but what I get to do today is ideally operate a business in a pretty difficult environment that allows us to continue to do that on scale across the country and, um, bring my values and my perspectives, my ethics to the table as a journalist in order to, to ensure that our company continues to support that kind of work.

Marianne Lewis: (03:53)
You know, it, it, I, I, I so appreciate that. And you're, you're reminding me of a, a faculty member when I was dean in London and all of her work was around expert leaders. And that means the doctor who becomes the head of a, a medical profession. It, it's a journalist who becomes the head of scripts. It's a. And, and it, it is a real step change because you could also bring in someone who is truly a professional manager, right? And so you, you have both the legitimacy of walking in their shoes, but also the, the challenge and opportunity of seeing it differently. I'm wondering in that path if there was a, a particular point in time where, where you realized you were, you were making this step change.

Adam Symson: (04:35)
Well, it's so funny that we're here in a school of business or in, in, in a university because I think what was required of me was to be a lifelong learner. Mm. And to continue to be willing to, um, step outside of what I was tasked with doing or what I was doing and recognize what I didn't understand and what I didn't know and set about some sort of process to educate myself on it. Yeah. Whether that was formally or, or informally. Um, a moment in time? No, I, you know, I, um, I think I realized, um, at Scripps that if I was willing to raise my hand - Mm. And take on some risk associated with my own, you know, sort of career, um, and prove myself through my actions that I would have the luxury of learning while doing. And the same is true even when I became CEO.

Adam Symson: (05:34)
I mean, you, you, you really, you really can't be an experienced CEO unless you're an experienced CEO walking into your second - It is a

Marianne Lewis: (05:43)
Double bind, isn't it? Right.

Adam Symson: (05:45)
It is, it is. And it's, there's no. I, I've just found there's no job like it in that way. Uh, and so, um, even the first time the comp committee came to me and said, you know, "We'd like you to take on the role of, of successor, uh, for Rich Boehne, who was the then CEO." Mm-hmm. I mean, you know, my imposter syndrome was huge. And the, um, the recognition that I was gonna need to surround myself with people that were far better than I on a variety of different levels, I ju - I just knew that's what it was gonna take for me to gain confidence and to succeed. And even still today, while I recognize that I've grown in certain areas, um, I'm just really fortunate to be surrounded by, uh, a lot of senior leaders that are better than I am at what they do.

Marianne Lewis: (06:33)
I, I, I appreciate your, both your confidence and humility, and I, I find that great leaders have such a beautiful paradoxical blend of those two. Um, and in part to navigate s - the hard parts, the change. You and I have talked quite a bit about the crossroads. I mean, my, my higher ed is certainly in, journalism is, is certainly in, um, because there, there is so much change, but at the same time, you do need stability. I wonder how you think about that tension of kind of the, the core foundation that you need to be a bedrock, but also the ability to change.

Adam Symson: (07:14)
You know, I think it's so important to have conviction, but to have that conviction balanced with a high level of humility. Um, none of us really has all the answers, especially in this moment when things are just so dynamic and things are changing so rapidly. Um, and so when I think about how I approach the job, um, I have certain convictions about what's right, how we should treat our employees, where the market's moving, um, the things that we should be willing to sacrifice in order to reinvest. Um, I, I certainly, um, have a strong sense of, uh, a number of those factors, but I'm also willing to admit that, um, I have the right to be wrong and I'm willing to understand that if I actually knew the right answer or if the right, if there was a right answer - Yeah. In this environment, right?

Adam Symson: (08:12)
Mm-hmm. Um, uh, you know, uh, I, I think I'd be able to plow forward with far, um, less humility. Mm-hmm. But the, the truth is, I mean, I've made a lot of mistakes. Um, I've gotten some things right. I find that to be about the case with, with being, um, a CEO in an industry like this. Mm-hmm. Um, and as long as I speak to people recognizing that, you know, I, I'm, I'm, I'm along for this ride trying to figure this out just the same as you are, um, I'm doing so with certain immutable principles. Mm-hmm. Um, but I'm not gonna fool anybody into thinking that I absolutely 100% know exactly what's gonna happen. Yeah. So it's like that tension between the conviction necessary, I think, to lead, um, an organization with 5,000 people who feel very strongly about their mission - uh-huh. With the humility to recognize that there's all sorts of stuff that can disrupt where we are today and where we might need to go tomorrow.

Marianne Lewis: (09:14)
I, I mean, I think that is such a, a vital blend because you're gonna have to put stakes in the ground to make really hard decisions. But it's, it sounds to me like you're also good at what I think is particularly challenging for leaders, which is communicating through that uncertainty that while at the same time as you're saying, I have conviction and this is the plan, and I may have to, we may have to learn as we go. Yeah.

Adam Symson: (09:39)
Yeah. I mean, I, I - And we have to adapt. Yeah. And I think, um, you know, uh, authenticity has become sort of the new - uh-huh. Business buzzword. Um, I, I, I look at it as, um, sort of being who you are, um, relative to, you know, dealing with all of the change in the marketplace, if you are comfortable just being who you are and are willing to put that out there, then when things don't go your way or go your way, you know, I think employees give you, um, a little bit more latitude because you've been consistently that way from the beginning. Um, so I don't, I don't, um, I don't think there's any magic here. I just think, you know, you gotta be, um, willing to speak to people and give them the information they need in order to also make decisions about their lives.

Marianne Lewis: (10:36)
Could, could we look at a particular type of decision? And I'm, I'm thinking back to the, the, you know, the event that you and I were at with, uh, with Fifth Third and Chamber, I think was about mergers and acquisitions, and you've been both the acquirer and the target in various ways. That's a particular type of decision. I'm not asking you to say something maybe too specific here, because I don't wanna put you in a tricky spot, but at the same time, how do you make those calls?

Adam Symson: (11:03)
Well, you make those calls based on, um, h- hopefully having the best information you can in front of you at that moment. And you make the tough decisions with that same level of humility that helps you recognize that it, it could turn out that the information I have is flawed or it's only one-sided, you know, it could turn out that it's not and we're, we're right on track. Things could change down the road. So I think, again, it gets back to sort of describing the process as, you know, trying to make decisions, uh, in the best interests of all of your stakeholders, um, uh, in a true and honest fashion. Um, you know, the company Scripps has, uh, operates with a very, very high level of ethics and morals. Y- you know, it's a family controlled public company. I think it goes all the way back to, you know, 150 years and the formation of the, uh, of the business.

Adam Symson: (11:59)
And that's, I think, something that was drilled into me by my predecessor and, and, and his predecessor before him. And, you know, it's just, it, it makes it much easier to make the right decision, even if sometimes it's an unpopular decision. Um, you think about, um, uh, acquisitions, um, y- you know, part of what I find gets missed when we discuss acquisitions or mergers, divestitures, um, is, um, the company culture. So, um, acquisitions can be done in which they look fabulous on an Excel spreadsheet, and it appears that the proforma is a no-brainer, but the minute you close on the acquisition or the merger is complete, that's when things start to break down. Shareholders are often focused only on that near term scenario. Right. But if you look at the history of deal making, deals fall apart all the time after they close. Oh, yeah.

Adam Symson: (12:57)
Much more so. And that leaves new shareholders holding the bag. Mm-hmm. So when I think about the work that we try to do in navigating the company forward, it's not just about the proforma between two businesses. It's not just about try to, trying to identify whether the, the deal moves us in the right direction. Yeah. It's also trying to understand whether or not this is gonna be successful on day 30, 60, 90, and five years later. Right. And, and sometimes you're right, and sometimes you're not, and you have to make changes. But, but ultimately, keeping that in the back of your mind that this isn't just a binary decision - Mm-mm. That's, I think, key, because the real work starts after the business is, after the deal is closed. That's

Marianne Lewis: (13:36)
So true. Well, uh, y- you also make me think a bit about the, the, the value and challenges of, of failure. I mean, making the tough decisions that sometimes you have to, you have to backtrack on. Um, I heard a great line recently, in fact, I used it in a class the other day, that real transformational learning, and I certainly feel like this is true about leadership happens through three things, struggle, conflict, and failure kind of are the b - I mean, something that really gets you in your gut and you have to process, reflect on. I wonder if there's something you might draw upon that's in one of those tougher situations that, that's helped shape you as a leader, that crucible moment, as Warren Bennis would say.

Adam Symson: (14:18)
Yeah, I mean, um, I feel like, you know, I've been doing this for nearly a decade. Um, it's been, um, the greatest privilege and the greatest burden. Hmm. Um, I would say the struggles and the challenges have been nonstop. Mm-hmm. I like to describe being CEO as a series of gut punches over and over and over again with the occasional win. Every once in a while, something turns out right, but mostly you're dealing with, you know, difficult situations. Mm-hmm. Uh, so, you know, for, for us, you know, immediately after I became, um, CEO, we got embroiled in a proxy fight. We, we, we were victorious. We won that proxy fight, but, you know, I certainly didn't think that I would spend the first year and a half of my tenure as CEO fighting for our board. Um, and it was a, it's a huge undertaking when you're involved in a proxy fight.

Adam Symson: (15:21)
Mm. Uh, we had a number of different M&A deals, uh, some of which, you know, I was really, uh, um, uh, optimistic about that fell apart, some of which we succeeded with and then had to do all the work I described earlier of, you know, uh, of the cl - post-close transaction. Um, and then we had the pandemic, which, I mean, I would have never thought that any of us were gonna deal with those sorts of challenges. Um, since then, we've got, uh, such a complicated political dynamic in this country - uh-huh. Especially for a media business. Oh. Um, a, a, a really complicated regulatory environment - Right. For us to operate in a very complex macroeconomic situation. So, um - Throw in AI.

Marianne Lewis: (16:07)
Throw

Adam Symson: (16:07)
In what's happening with AI, the opportunity and the curse of - Absolutely. Of AI.You're right. Both. And I think, um - Certainly. Yeah, we're all navigating this just, um, complex time when the pace of change is just so much faster than it was. I, I keep waiting for a regular year - . Where we'll just have the chance to operate and succeed, and I'm yet to have the regular year.

Marianne Lewis: (16:32)
I would imagine you get into situations that I, I do sometimes where people say, "Could we just pause?" And I'm thinking, "Nothing's pausing around us." Right. Uh, from a, from a culture building standpoint, h- how do you, how do you manage that? Because you've got your foot on the gas, but you, there's strain. There is potential strain around change. And, and, and how do you build a culture that is both agile enough to change, but also feels calm?

Adam Symson: (16:58)
Yeah, and this is particularly relevant to us right now. We're in the midst of a pretty dramatic transformation at the company. Mm-hmm. Uh, we described back in February how we were going to improve the EBITDA of the business by $150 million. Um, uh, that's gonna be done on the back of, you know, dramatic transformation towards efficiency, um, you know, sort of corporate speak for some cost cutting - uh-huh. And transformation in the direction of where our consumer's going, along with new top line opportunity. And that was received, I think, um, really well inside by the c - by, by our employees. Um, we're, we're, we're operating a process that has given them tremendous agency. We've got hundreds of employees who are actually initiative owners responsible for driving that transformation. And when you and I met - Oh, I. Um, a couple of weeks ago, we were in the midst - You were in the heart of it.

Adam Symson: (17:52)
Yeah. We were in the heart of the rubber hitting the road - uh-huh. And our, our, our largest, um, ro- round of job eliminations. You know, you, you, you can describe how the company's gonna transform and save $150 million as we think about new ways to meet our consumers where they are. And then you can actually do it where you start making very difficult decisions about changing workflows, leaning into technology, um, upending processes that you have used for 50 years, and unfortunately, um, saying goodbye to really great employees - uh-huh. Who have done absolutely nothing wrong, and it's heartbreaking. It's really difficult. And my job is, um, to set aside my personal feelings to some extent, my emotions about this, especially as somebody who, who, who did this role, was a producer in the newsroom, and recognize that ultimately I have a responsibility to ensure that the company is able to perpetuate - Right.

Adam Symson: (18:58)
And that we're able to do so with enough margin to execute our mission. And I can clearly see what the alternatives are. Mm-hmm. I can see some of our peers executing those alternatives. I can see, um, the, uh, down the road with other industries, what happens if you sort of just wait out the alternatives. And to your point about pausing - Right. Pausing is not an option. It's not. Yeah. The world is not going to stop. Mm-mm. So, uh, you know, while I wish we could pause, and one day, um, my time as CEO will come to an end and I will personally - . Be able to pause - Right. And we'll enjoy that, um, the business will never pause. Mm-mm. Um, and in the old days, I think you could probably get away with that. The pace of change just wasn't that dramatic. Mm-hmm. But today, um, you know, it's almost like if you're not moving forward, you're actually moving backwards and you're moving backwards at a pretty good clip.

Marianne Lewis: (19:53)
You know, A- Adam, I, one of the pieces I, I'd just love to pick a little bit more, especially because you're a journalist and, and I already said, uh, just reiterate, I, I fervently believe one of the greatest challenges of leadership is communicating, is how do you actually explain, right? I mean, you've got it in your head, you've got it in your heart, and how do you talk about it? You're a writer, you're a. But I'd love to just hear h- how you process that and make it happen. Yeah,

Adam Symson: (20:20)
Man, we, we talk about this around the office all the time. I mean, people ask me, "What do you do all day?" You know, my kids ask me, like, "What, what, what, what, what do you spend your time on?" And I actually think, ultimately, I spend most of my time in some form or, or another of communication. Mm-hmm. Uh, communicating with shareholders, communicating with employees, communicating with, uh, our other stakeholders like our advertisers or our audiences, working with, um, the terrific professionals at Scripps in our communications department - Mm. D- developing those strategies and then ensuring they're consistent with the culture that we wanna, um, adhere to. Um, I think ultimately, for us, um, focusing on the why - uh-huh. Is really important. Um, you think you can, you, you think it's apparent what's going on in the media ecosystem. You think everybody is, um, paying attention to all the changes, and it must be obvious.

Adam Symson: (21:22)
But the truth is, especially when I think about, um, our internal stakeholders, our employees, there's a significant cognitive dissonance - uh-huh. That exists. So outside of work, they are media consumers like all of us are. They are watching, streaming, they are tuning in, um, less frequently to the news, they are using social media more and more where they just are sort of coming across information instead of intentionally seeking it. Now, of course, they're going to the search bar, they're putting in a question, and they're using AI as the return instead of clicking on recognizable brands. Outside of work, they're, they're doing all those things. Mm-hmm. And then they come to the station, they come to the newsroom, they, they, they come to the corporate office, they put on the, the, the, the, the journalist's jacket, so to speak, or the salesperson's jacket, and it's almost like they fail to recognize that the whole world is doing the same thing.

Adam Symson: (22:26)
And that has serious downstream implications on, um, our audience - Mm. And the time our audience spends with us, the other options our audience has. It has serious implications on, uh, our advertising revenue, and all of that has downstream implications on what it is we do. Yeah. So, you know, our most recent change has been about identifying how would we rebuild our processes were we to found this company today? Ah. We're calling it a refounding. Okay. And among the things we're looking at is the newscast, right? Today, um, most of our operations have a workflow that hasn't changed for 50 years, not since I was in the newsroom. And we're still very much operating, uh, with the intention of developing a product for the five, six, and 11, even though in reality, the consumer is not tuning into the five, six, and 11 like they used to.

Adam Symson: (23:25)
Yeah. Not even close. And instead, all day long, they're seeking that information, right? Mm-hmm. So we have to figure out how to, what I would characterize as reverse broadcast - Hmm. And to completely change our workflows. And we're leaning heavily into technology like automation and some AI, non-generative AI, in order to allow us to reallocate resources from workflows that used to serve that five and six and 11 o'clock news to now workflows that'll allow us to put more people in the field, better cover the communities where we operate, and publish constantly. Mm. Okay. And that's, that's what's led to some of those job eliminations. Mm-hmm. Uh, but that's a, that's just an incredibly difficult thing for people who, um, graduated from journalism school or from, you know, uh, a, a degree that, that they, they, they've, they've then been doing things the same way for 10 years, and you're asking them to completely stop down and try to think about things in a different way.

Adam Symson: (24:24)
Even though outside of the newsroom, they're all consuming media - Differently. Like the rest of the world. Mm-hmm. Right.

Marianne Lewis: (24:32)
My, my early career research was all around the tensions between incremental and radical innovation and, and how incredibly different they are. They take different processes, mindsets, and I mean, it's the innovator's dilemma. It's really hard to change in big ways. I mean, I love, I love your approach. Refounding?

Adam Symson: (24:51)
Refounding. Refounding.

Marianne Lewis: (24:53)
I mean, oftentimes I'll use the, let's start with the perfect world. Uh, but it's very hard to take off the blinders or, or just get out of the situation that you're in. I appreciate the way you're thinking about this. Uh, um, I wanna, as a, as a final question to kind of lean into a bit about the community, start talking about the community. I know you, you, you're in many, many communities, but this is your hometown. Right. This is your base. Absolutely. Um, I wonder if you could share a little bit about what that means to you, what it means to Scripps, and because I, I also, I, I always want our students to see y - there's the job, there's the organization, and there's this community. And I think you are such a, you personally, as well as the firm, are really good about thinking about it synergistically.

Marianne Lewis: (25:37)
But how do, how does it look in your own mind? Well,

Adam Symson: (25:40)
Th- this is an extraordinarily, extraordinary place. Um, you know, I'm, I'm from Los Angeles originally. And, um, what I've come to recognize is Los Angeles can certainly have everything, but in having everything, it's about nothing. It doesn't end up standing for much in that way. Whereas if you live in a place like this, and there's a lot of communities like Cincinnati, where, um, the business community can gather together once a month and actually make a change - Mm. That dramatically, that can dramatically improve the lives of the, the, the, the kids that go to the school district in that community. Um, you know, that can, um, that can get together and decide, you know, we wanna, we wanna, um, we wanna push, um, a local sports initiative. And so how are we gonna gather together in order to make sure that we're gonna, to, to get this funded and, and how do we support the local universities and how, you know, this, this is, um, this is what I think community and community connection are all about.

Adam Symson: (26:46)
It's actually what's influenced, I think, the change of our company's vision. We used to be a vision focused on information - Okay. Which has really become very commoditized. And, and relatively recently, we switched over to a vision, um, we create connection, recognizing that in this highly polarized world right now, what can we do to further enhance the connection people have to their communities? How do we, uh, ensure that people fully take advantage of that sense of place? Right. I have seen a lot of other communities in this country in which the business community does not necessarily band together to drive value. And ultimately, what ends up happening is they end up losing their big companies. Mm-hmm. They end up losing their international flights. They end up, um, losing the hub of innovation, and they begin to wither. Yeah. And here in Cincinnati, uh, you know, we're doing a good job.

Adam Symson: (27:48)
I think we can do a better job of ensuring that we get together with our other companies, our other, um, gr - you know, uh, local-based businesses and organizations, and further advantage ourselves - uh-huh. Over just spending our money agnostically with everybody else. You know, every time we make a decision to invest with one of our local businesses, we help support the community where all of our employees, or not all of our employees, but all of our corporate office employees live. Um, we, we in Cincinnati, we've gotta do a better job of that. Yeah. And I think there's further that we can go to do that. Um, I, I'm excited to, to try and identify ways that we can participate in that.

Marianne Lewis: (28:34)
But I am too. And, and I, it's possible because of you, because of Scripps, because of leaders and firms like, like you and Scripps and- And

Adam Symson: (28:44)
Institutions like this, for sure. Our universities -

Marianne Lewis: (28:47)
There's a public private - Absolutely. So much because it's through partnerships that we can do so much. Right. And you're right. I, I find it incredibly hopeful and energizing to see that we can make differences because sometimes you can get into these wicked problems and think it's never, you know, right? And get a little overly frustrated and even paralyzed. But we don't, we don't need to be there. Yeah. We have so much opportunity, especially together. And I, I'm grateful. Thank you. Thank you for your insights and your inspiration. I, I, I appreciate you very much, Adam. It's been a pleasure. Thank

Adam Symson: (29:18)
You. It's been a, it's been an absolute pr - pleasure. Thank you.

Grant Freking: (29:20)
Thank you for listening to this episode of Bearcats Mean Business. If today's episode sparked a new idea, challenge your thinking, or helped you see your path a little more clearly, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share the episode with someone in your network. Thanks for being part of the conversation. And remember, real world success begins here at Lindner.

Grant Freking: (00:00)
What does real world success in business actually look like? Welcome to Bearcats Mean Business, the official podcast of the University of Cincinnati's Carl H. Lindner College of Business, where inspiring career stories, honest lessons, and fresh business perspectives from the people building impact in the real world come together. Tune in for inspiration, practical business insights, and forward-looking though leadership on how ambition turns into action. And now for today's episode. All right, it's my pleasure today to welcome Jeff Birding, president and co - CEO of FC Cincinnati. Jeff, thanks for being here. Hi,

Jeff Berding: (00:36)
Grant. Great to be here. Jeff,

Grant Freking: (00:38)
You grew up with nine siblings and became the first person in your immediate family to attend college. What did that opportunity mean to you and how has it helped you approach the way you go about leadership and your entire career?

Jeff Berding: (00:52)
Well, coming from a large family on the West Side, it was a lot of fun, uh, and a lot of good friends who I'm still friends with, uh, to this day. Uh, our family didn't have a lot of money, so I played sports year round, spent summers at Ryan Park and, um, playing sports, swimming, and, um, very competitive. Hmm. Um, I had coaches and teachers, um, who, um, saw something in me that, uh, I never would have seen in myself. And, um, at St. Catherine's, they, they pushed me on to St. X High School where the Jesuits and the Men for Others, uh, life orientation sort of took hold. Um, and of course when you go to St. X, that means that you're going to go to college because to go to St. X is a pathway to, to college. And, um, those teachers and coaches really had me thinking bigger about my life in a way that was, uh, comfortable.

Jeff Berding: (01:53)
It made sense to me. Um, it wasn't something that all of, uh, my siblings, uh, did. So being the first birding and one of, uh, there's two of us, I have a sister that graduated from UD. Mm-hmm. . So, um,

Jeff Berding: (02:10)
It, it was, it was my path. It wasn't necessarily the, the, the family expectation. Yeah. For the record, my dad did take business classes at UC. Oh, great. Uh, and is a, and is a, um, a loyal, uh, Bearcat, uh, supporter on, and season ticket holder in football, basketball, and baseball. Love to hear

Grant Freking: (02:30)
It.

Jeff Berding: (02:30)
Yeah. So it, uh, it's, it's not that my family didn't have college - uh-huh. . But of the 10 of us, there's two that have, uh, have graduated.

Grant Freking: (02:39)
Right. And how did that kind of experience, we know you did, you personally didn't go to UC, but how did that sort of experience kind of cultivate your interests, maybe draw you to certain leadership topics, maybe, you know, pull out a few mentors, things like that?

Jeff Berding: (02:53)
Sure. Sure. Well, let me just first of all say, uh, I'm a UC fan because I'm a Cincinnati fan. Right. And this institution represents this city on a national and global stage. So the fact that I was never a student here, I came very close to being a UC law student. And there's a real backstory on why I was not, uh, uh, I am not a graduate of UC Law School. But at the end of the day, I want to just share. And of course, FC Cincinnati doesn't exist without UC. But I went to Miami University, uh, and, um, for me it was the perfect size. Um, I was an RA my sophomore year. I paid my way through college. Um, I worked in the dining hall my freshman year. Um, and then my junior and senior year I was in student government, which paid.

Jeff Berding: (03:39)
Um, you know, I worked, uh, in other jobs on campus and uptown, uh, was in a fraternity. Um, and, and as I noted in student government. So for me, my leadership voice really began at Miami University. When I was at St. X, you know, I was on the football team, I was on the track team, um, was involved on, on, uh, uh, at the high school, but never a leader. But, um, my freshman year I was, uh, the representative of our residence hall to sort of into campus affairs and then I became the RA and then ran for student government. And I remember I had a, um, uh, I still have a, a close friend, Leslie, uh, Haxby, who when I got elected to student government, I'm a sophomore heading into junior year, and it was literally, I was really good campaigning, but then I'm like, "Oh my goodness, I have no idea what I'm doing." And she just said, "Relax.

Jeff Berding: (04:34)
We're gonna be, you're gonna do great. I'm gonna help you. I'm gonna be walking by your side the whole time and, uh, you know, you're, you're not gonna do this alone." And that, um, gave me confidence, uh, to not only do well, but a, a real leadership principle for me is, um, and like in sports, you, you never walk in life alone, you never walk through challenges in life alone. Good leaders have good people around them, good leaders mentor other people to help them because most leaders never got to their position of success in life by themselves. They had their own mentors, they had their own, uh, people that were helping them. And, uh, now I try to pay that forward in the same way Leslie did with me when I first got elected to student government.

Grant Freking: (05:20)
Right. I wanna touch on that point because it's a good one in a second, but first I wanna go to the foundings of FC Cincinnati. In 2015, you left a director level position with the Bengals and to build what would become FC Cincinnati. And I think if the story goes, you started it on your kitchen table. What gave you the confidence to take that leap, what ended up being a major league leap?

Jeff Berding: (05:41)
Yeah. Well, let me say I was blessed to work at the Bengals for 20 years and, um, I'm a huge Bengals fan. I grew up watching, of course, the two Super Bowl teams, uh, and the opportunity to work for the Bengals, um, after the initiative to build, um, what became Paul Brown Stadium, uh, and Great American Ballpark, uh, was approved. The Bengals, Mike Brown offered me an opportunity to come work for the team. And, um, while I was there, in addition to opening the stadium and selling out the stadium and all the suites and the club seats and whatnot, um, Mike was very interested in being supportive of me and let me, when I was recruited to run for city council to be elected to three terms of city council, and his words always stuck with me, "Jeff, go make the city better because when the city's better, that's good for Procter & Gamble.

Jeff Berding: (06:28)
It's good for Kroger. It's good for the Cincinnati Bengals. And so go make the city better." Um, when I left City Council, I, after six years, I joined, I was recruited to join the board of my Kids Youth Soccer Club. Two of my three kids are, were pretty good soccer players. And so they played on a club select team and, and I was, uh, on the board. And before too long, I became the president of the board, drove a merger with another club, uh, and really got to experience the youth soccer scene, get to know a lot of the clubs, a lot of the presence of the clubs. And my kids were rooting for Manchester United, um, as their team in the way that I rooted for the Cincinnati Reds as a kid. And I wanted my kids to have a hometown team to root for.

Jeff Berding: (07:14)
And I had done some research just from my professional sports background to see the rise of Major League Soccer, the global currency of soccer, and I just though it was important for Cincinnati's future and for future generations of soccer fans to have a team here. So I wrote the plan, uh, and sh- shopped it to some folks. Uh, and really the first person that really bought into my plan was then President Santa Ono. He saw it, because I need a place to play. Right. Yeah. And I mean, you can't have a sports team without a place to play your games. And, uh, I had been striking out, uh, in that effort, but Santa believed in the plan and, um, correct, uh, connected me to Mike Bone, the, then athletic director. Mm-hmm. . And we worked through, um, what it would take. And then this was all in 2014, and then in 2015, Carl Lindner called me and said, "I heard about your plan and, um, w- w - had me over for lunch and he talked about his interest in bringing soccer to Cincinnati and, uh, maybe we should join forces." And so to your answer to your question, once Carl and I were connected that we were doing this together and all of the research and all of the plan, um, and some of my experience, I had political experience, I had professional sports experience, I had civic experience, and I didn't have entrepreneurial experience, but I had Carl Lindner with me.

Jeff Berding: (08:35)
Mm. Like I, I, I just felt very confident in the plan and that this was gonna work. And our first game, uh, 14,000 people showed up to Nippert Stadium and we've never looked back. Yeah,

Grant Freking: (08:44)
I was there. It was a crazy atmosphere. The first goal was quite the, the Shauna -

Jeff Berding: (08:48)
Yes, it was. Shauna Coley scissor kick.

Grant Freking: (08:50)
Yeah. Incredible. And you, you just re - kind of touched on this point, but big ideas rarely stay the work of, of one person. And the idea really became reality once you, as you mentioned, Carl III became, um, interested in. And then not only that, but invested in it as did, uh, other members of the ownership group. What did you, did you learn anything about, uh, inviting others into your vision, um, during that process? And, um, I'm guessing you never wanted to really carry it alone, um, but like, did it even expand further, further your vision of like how much help you may need or other, you know, people you may need to kind of bring into the fold?

Jeff Berding: (09:26)
Well, l- let me offer, I always knew that I would need a team because I didn't have the resources. I had a great plan with no resources. Right, right. Um, when we were going into the United Soccer League, the plan was, um, six million dollars is what I thought I would need to raise. And, uh, yes, uh, people like George Joseph and Steve Hightower and Jack Wyant, um, and others came in with Carl. The Lindner family, of course, were the, the overwhelming piece of it, but we did have some other folks who were very important early on to help us get this thing off the ground. And, um, you know, some of this is you want strategic owners. And so, you know, then Scott Farmer comes in and, you know, the success of the Farmer family with Cintas, it gives credibility, but then you have your partners out there representing the team, selling the brand, um, encouraging companies to buy tickets for their employees to come to the games.

Jeff Berding: (10:28)
I mean, it was all a very integral part of the plan. And of course, we were enormously successful. I joke we were the New York Yankees of minor league soccer, uh, for three years. Um, when we, in tw - after the end of the first year, we were invited to participate in MLS expansion and won the expansion bid, um, then in the beginning of 2018, um, clearly we knew we were gonna need a much larger ownership group because it, it wasn't gonna be, you know, a few million dollars, it was gonna be hundreds of millions of dollars. We knew we were gonna have to be, uh, to build our own stadium. So at that point, we had to get, uh, very inclusive and we put a broad invitation out there throughout the Cincinnati business community and a little bit more broadly because we have some partners from Michigan and Kentucky.

Jeff Berding: (11:21)
Um, and of course Meg Whitman, um, was coming at the time from California. So at that point, w- we were selling our vision and what the future would hold for soccer in this country, and Major League Soccer is a league, and we were successful in raising the dollars, um, and building a very special brand that, without question, would not have happened without investors willing to, uh, give us their s- support, their confidence, their patience, because this is a long-term play. But it's also legacy making. Like these are the owners that brought professional soccer to Cincinnati.

Grant Freking: (11:57)
Yeah. These, these, uh, owners and investors, um, get pitched all the time, I'm sure. What's some of the feedback that you got from them during these meetings about maybe some things they liked, some of their concerns, you know, things maybe their advisors had told them before the, before the meeting to kind of, "Hey, check in with Jeff on this." What was some of the feedback that you remember during those meetings?

Jeff Berding: (12:20)
Well, certainly, um, you know, I, I always joke if, if you're, um, interested in, um, making the biggest return on your dollars, you should buy Cintas or Great American Insurance stock, right? Like there's a lot of companies that are, that, whose, um, key people are a part of our ownership group where they would size up the investment, uh, uh, opportunity differently. Yeah,

Jeff Berding: (12:51)
Yeah. But we

Jeff Berding: (12:51)
Felt we had to be investment worthy, um, with the understanding that there was a patience required. Um, sports teams do appreciate in this country. Um, we don't have, uh, relegation in major league soccer. So it was only gonna go up. The question is how quickly it would go up. And certainly in our case, um, you know, we paid $150 million, um, e- expansion fee. We built our stadium and now we're worth nearly a billion dollars. So the appreciation has been there. But I think the most important thing to most of our investors, which the appreciation's enormously important, of course, um, but that we're building something that's special for Cincinnati, a brand that they can be proud of, that they represent, we represent them. Uh, we try to do things the right way. Um, I think our commitment to the community is noteworthy. I think people feel good about how we represent Cincinnati on a global stage and locally participate meaningfully in making this community better, to grow faster, um, uh, to represent, uh, belonging, that we're a club where people can find belonging.

Jeff Berding: (14:08)
And I think all of our investors, um, value that. I mean, you're gonna have the standard questions, of course, on liquidity, liquidity events, if people wanna sell. Um, I would say that those are sort of the straightforward legal and business questions that any investment in any team is gonna have. Sure. But I think for, for us, I think we're doing this in a way because we think it's important for Cincinnati. We think Cincinnati having a major league team and a global sport puts us on the map in a way that is helpful. Um, just the other day, uh, Saturday night I was in, uh, a suite with some folks from one of the biggest airlines, uh, in the world and, you know, they're talking about adding more routes and, you know, w- w - it's gonna happen, not because of FC Cincinnati, but I think we try to represent that this is a growing community and a community that business leaders can, from outside can look at us as we're on a, a, a growing trajectory and that that helps, um, sell this community.

Grant Freking: (15:12)
Right.

Grant Freking: (15:12)
You mentioned that community and the, the club's influence in it. And you were a driving force, as you mentioned, um, you mentioned TQL Stadium earlier, the new stadium that opened in 2021, right? And how do you, how do you and the club balance that growth with the responsibility of investing in the neighborhood where people live and work and mix their families and just hang out?

Jeff Berding: (15:33)
Well, um, you know, when we initially went through the MLS expansion process in December of 2017, we had to have a fully baked and legally committed stadium plan and we went. The, the plan that we can get over the finish line before we went up there in December was a, a, at a site in Oakley. And it's not that ne - that necessarily was the preferred site, but it was the site we could get over the finish line in time. I went up there and, uh, the commissioner said, "Well, where's the downtown site?" And he called it the Brooklyn of Cincinnati, and he was referring to Over the Rhine, but he was really alluding to the site that, where the current stadium is in the West End. And, um, he said, "That's where you need to build the stadium, and I'll give you four or five months to see if you can pull that off." And, um, we didn't have any, own any of the land, so we immediately had to start thinking about buying the land and get the site under control, uh, work with the Cincinnati Public School Board.

Jeff Berding: (16:29)
But the most meaningful thing was I went door to door in the neighborhood in the West End, uh, a neighborhood that had suffered serious neglect, disinvestment over a s - largely 75-year period, um, and, um, try to hear their stories and hear their hopes for the future. And, um, how could we be a catalyst for change? How could we build a better future for the neighborhood, for the people in the neighborhood together? Um, ultimately, that led to signing a community benefits agreement between FC Cincinnati and the West End Community Council, West End stakeholders. And, um, I'll always remember one of my mentors, David Mann at the time was the, uh, vice mayor, uh, former congressman, and David said, "You need to do the community benefits agreement, Jeff, because the folks in the West End have no reason to trust you." He says, "I trust you, but they've been betrayed so many times, Jeff, that this legally binding document gives you an opportunity to earn trust." And he goes, "I know you'll honor everything in it, and then you, that's how, that's how you start building." And so we signed it and we've exceeded everything that's in the agreement, uh, since we signed it.

Jeff Berding: (17:41)
Um, and that began a, a very close relationship with, uh, the residents of the West End. Many of them work in our stadium. People say, "Oh, your staff is so nice." And I said, "Well, because they're welcoming you to their neighborhood." Um, and, um, you know, we have the soccer program. We do all kinds of activities with Hayes Porter and Taft High School, two of the schools in the West End. When we did our vision for our mixed use development, we p - um, first did a vision, um, session with people from the West End where it was just dr - what does your dream for the neighborhood look like? Like literally look like p - cutting pictures out of news magazines and whatnot. Sure, yeah. Like what does it include? It's, you know, can we have a coffee shop in the neighborhood, maybe a place to buy, you know, some groceries?

Jeff Berding: (18:29)
Uh, can we have a place to, um, you know, listen to music, you know, some additional, uh, density in terms of apartments, um, that they wanted market rate. My point is we listened to them first, then the architects who sat through the session came back with some init- initial concepts, presented them to the neighborhood, the neighborhood reviewed, gave some tweaks, went back to the, came back again a second time with the architects and it's like, yes, this is what we want for the neighborhood. And that became our, uh, our mixed use plan, was literally from the residents. And just so you know, we were working with City Hall a little bit at the time and they wanted us to come in and present what we're thinking. And we said, no, we're not gonna do that until we're in the, uh, uh, we've, we've gone through and got the neighborhood on board.

Jeff Berding: (19:14)
Well, that commitment to listening and being a part of the neighborhood paid off because then we got a unanimous vote from the West End Community Council, got a unanimous vote at City Hall, we got an unanimous vote with the planning commission. All those things that you've seen have been very controversial in other neighborhoods. Um, for us, it wasn't because we did things the right way, we listened and we built dreams together for what the future of the neighborhood should be. Yeah.

Grant Freking: (19:39)
Does that dovetail. I think that might dovetail into my next question. You've mentioned your, your previous positions, five years on Cincinnati City Council, two decades with the Bengals, and as, as you noted, uh, I think all fair, you know, just so almost exactly 11 years with FC Cincinnati, a range of leadership positions along the way. What are the principles that remain constant for you crossing over these positions and, and working with stakeholders, working with people above you, that sort of thing?

Jeff Berding: (20:08)
Well, number one is you have to have a growth mindset. You have to be willing to be uncomfortable. Growth comes from being uncomfortable, rarely from being comfortable. And I think sometimes in our city, people get very comfortable. This is a wonderful place to live, but sometimes that feeling of pride and, and satisfaction leads to just being comfortable and accepting things as they are. And, you know, other cities were far below us in the 50s and the 60s and they've raced past us in terms of population and economic growth and building more housing and, um, attracting new companies, uh, here, attracting startups. Cities have passed us by because they were a- ambitiously, um, building with a growth mindset. And I think we were sort of just comfortable. And so I'm never wanting to be comfortable because the minute you're getting comfortable, um, uh, others are passing you by.

Jeff Berding: (21:10)
And I mean that as an individual, like I have to have a growth mindset and how I live my life, what am I reading, my relationships, spirituality, all these things. Am I growing as a person? Is our company growing? FC Cincinnati? Do we have a growth mindset? Do the people that work for us have a growth mindset? And does our city have a growth mindset? And our city has to have, and the leaders of the city, not just elected, but civic leaders, we have to be willing to be uncomfortable and push through this malaise of being satisfied. We're, we should not be satisfied. And with FC Cincinnati, I'm never satisfied. And sometimes maybe that makes people uncomfortable, but that's the whole point - uh-huh. Uh, is, is to grow. The other part is I believe in, uh, inclusivity. Uh, I believe that inviting people, creating a sense of belonging, um, are, are, are, are very i- important.

Jeff Berding: (22:02)
I think that we're stronger when we have a lot of people working together with different ideas, with different experiences, willing to challenge your thinking - Mm. To challenge my thinking. Um, I welcome that, um, because a- again, it, it helps me grow. Um, I have my lived experience, people, uh, with different lived experiences and different education are gonna come at things differently. And I think that ultimately, um, the, the, the whole is better than just the sum of each individual part and each individual person. And so, um, I think that we're better as a community. And one of the things I love about Cincinnati is we're, we, we're big enough to have all those amenities of a big city, uh, without all, of course, a lot of the big city hassles. But even more so, you're c - the opportunity for you to move this city forward, to, uh, help this city change, to help the city grow, people have their own big ideas.

Jeff Berding: (22:59)
This is a city where that you can get to influential stakeholders and make your big ideas happen.

Grant Freking: (23:05)
Yeah. And building, building off that answer, when you are leading an effort that crosses over business, civic leadership, pol - needs political support, you touched on communicating your vision to, to the neighborhood, the we - the West End Council. Um, how do you communicate that vision to, I guess, everyday people or even influential stakeholders when you're trying to communicate a vision that's gonna affect the entire ecosystem, so to speak?

Jeff Berding: (23:30)
Well, you obviously have to find the intersection of how you are connecting to the right stakeholders, the right decision makers to advance your vision and understanding and developing a plan to do that of, of course, is, is very important. I'm gonna call that at a, at a micro level. Mm-hmm. But there's also the, the macro part, the public piece, which is, do you have the, the people on board with your vision? Have you sold your vision in the West End? I literally went door to door. Like, I, you know, I was a city council member asking for votes, only I wasn't asking for their vote. I was listening to what, uh, what their concerns were so that I could address them. And there'd been a lot of misinformation working, people working against us by frankly being annor - dishonest, uh, uh, in a way that, um, was really just political and ideological.

Jeff Berding: (24:30)
But you do have to have the public on board at some point with your vision. So whether that's going in the news media, TV, radio, podcasts, um, uh, working with, uh, elected officials and other influencers who have their own public, um, uh, uh, stake out there in terms of, um, communicating to, uh, the broader population, those are all important aspects of a plan because at some point, you're gonna need to bring people on board with you, both those micro level, uh, influencers, decision makers, I should say - uh-huh. Elected officials. And that is easier if there is broader public support. And I think with FC Cincinnati, we've always taken the position that we're not gonna ask for any help that's, for FC Cincinnati, that's not good for Cincinnati. Mm. And also, if it's good for Cincinnati, FC Cincinnati can be counted on to try to be a part of the solution.

Jeff Berding: (25:31)
Yeah.

Grant Freking: (25:32)
If someone wanted to shape the future of Cincinnati, but kind of didn't know to re - where to begin, given your experience, you also have the love for the city, you're fifth generation Cincinnatian, where would you tell them to start?

Jeff Berding: (25:44)
Well, s - first of all, get involved. Um, because through b- being involved as a civic leader, having a, a, a civic stakeholder, you're gonna make the relationships that are gonna allow, allow you to help advance your idea. We have so many institutions in this town. I mean, whether it's the Chamber of Commerce has tons of committees, including for younger professionals, um, whether it's things like the United Way. When I moved back to Cincinnati after college, I joined the United Way, was a volunteer for 10 years on the basic needs field of service, met a ton of people who are still friends and important to me to this day. Um, you know, the art museum has a young professionals, um, group there. Um, I'm on the art museum board. Um, you know, are there alumni chapters from your university here? Um, but certainly some of it is just starting to get involved because that involvement builds relationships.

Jeff Berding: (26:43)
And it also gives you a little bit of civic capital that people see you in a way where you're trying to help the community, to serve the community, to make this community better. And it gives you, I think, an easier pathway then to advance your idea. Obviously, there are people who you would need to sell your idea if it's a business idea. Obviously, we have centrifuge and other startup. There's obviously a huge startup community here on the University of Cincinnati's campus. So I would say there's the stakeholders are selling a business idea that are, I, I believe readily available in this town, which also brings connection to fundraising and financing and mentors to help you develop your plan and the like. But if it's an idea about making the city better, I, I, again, I personally think that there's every opportunity to get involved. Um, our elected officials are not hard to get ahold of.

Jeff Berding: (27:41)
You could literally make an appointment, I think nearly any city council member to show up and talk about your idea. You could show up at a city council meeting that you give you two minutes to sit in front of city council and the mayor and make your case for your idea. If it's a good idea, some council member's gonna walk down from the DS after, um, the public comments section and say, "Hey, let's talk more about it." So again, I think this city, that, those avenues to advance your idea is just much more accessible than in a lot of, a lot of cities in the US.

Grant Freking: (28:13)
Jeff Berding, appreciate you being here today. Thank you for being on Bearcats Mean Business. You're

Jeff Berding: (28:16)
Welcome, Grant. Thank you. It's been great to be here back where FC Cincinnati began 10 years ago. That's

Grant Freking: (28:22)
Right. Love to hear it. Thank you for listening to this episode of Bearcats Mean Business. If today's episode sparked a new idea, challenge your thinking, or helped you see your path a little more clearly, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share the episode with someone in your network. Thanks for being part of the conversation. And remember, real world success begins here at Lindner.